During Sunday Evening Story-Time on July 25, 2010, with the ‘teaching elder’ of Illinois (AKA the Cunning Royal Jester), in his continual struggle to divide the second coming of Jesus Christ into 2 great installments .... he proposed that ‘the events are similar, but the distinctions don’t match.’ He acclaimed people who ‘understand the distinctive ministry of Paul’. He was attempting to separate THE appearing of Jesus Christ .... by saying that Paul wrote of a DIFFERENT coming .... than the 4 gospels record. To test the validity of the ‘teaching elder’s supposition, let’s begin among Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
1. Matthew and Mark say He will come ‘in’ the ‘clouds’ (plural) .... but the Greek words that were translated ‘in’ are different.
2. John wrote He will come ‘with’ ‘clouds’. So would the IL ‘teaching elder’ make a distinction here? Will His coming ‘in’ clouds be different than His coming ‘with’ clouds?
3. Luke records that He will come ‘in’ ‘a cloud’ (singular). Does the IL ‘teaching elder’ think His coming in plural clouds is different than His coming in a single cloud?
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in [epi] the clouds [nephele] of heaven with power and great glory.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with [meta] clouds [nephele];
and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in [en] the clouds [nephele] with great power and glory.
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in [en] a cloud [nephele] with power and great glory.
Oh, the IL ‘teaching elder’ says THESE ‘distinctions that don’t match’ are all talking about the SAME event. But when PAUL shows Jesus will come from heaven, and the dead and alive are taken up in the clouds to meet the Lord .... then the IL ‘teaching elder’ teaches that 'that coming' (he calls the 'rapture') is an entirely different coming, more than 7 years BEFORE the coming recorded by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. What extreme denial .... to protect his paradigm!
1 Thess 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in [en] the clouds [nephele], to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Now, let’s consider more verse abuse from the IL ‘teaching elder’.
Matthew and Mark both say His angels will be sent to gather together His elect from the four winds. However, Matthew says it will be from one end of HEAVEN to the other .... but Mark says it will be from the end of the EARTH to the farthest bounds of HEAVEN. So would the IL ‘teaching elder’ create 2 separate gatherings here .... one from heaven to heaven, and the other from earth to heaven? Oh no, he would say THIS ‘distinction that doesn’t match’ are is talking about the SAME event.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
But when PAUL wrote about the coming of the Lord and our gathering together unto Him .... the IL ‘teaching elder’ makes THIS a different coming and a different gathering of a different group of elect.
The IL ‘teaching elder’ also makes a point to say that in Matthew and Mark, it is the ANGELS that gather together the elect .... whereas, in Paul's writings, he says that the LORD Himself will give His personal attention and He does the gathering. But he is wrong, because NEITHER of the VERSES in Paul's writings say WHO will do the gathering:
2 Thess 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
1 Thess 4:16-17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Next, we read about the sound of a trumpet at the Lord’s coming.
Matthew wrote about it and so did Paul. But the IL ‘teaching elder’ says Matthew’s trumpet is an angel’s trumpet, not God’s. Well, the angel is God’s angel, and the trumpet is God’s trumpet. Just like the IL ‘teaching elder’ teaches that Moses’ law (Heb 10:28), the law of Moses (Acts 28:28 and 21 other times) .... is actually God’s law, the law of God. But the IL ‘teaching elder’ is not even consistent with his own principles, when he then says, Paul’s trumpet is God’s trumpet, not an angel’s trumpet:
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels
with [meta] a great [megas] sound [phone] of a trumpet [salpigx],
and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at [en] the last [eschatos] trump [salpigx]: for [gar] the trumpet shall sound [salpizo], and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
In the previous verse, the Greek word [en] was translated ‘at’ .... and in the next verse, the same Greek word [en] was translated ‘with’. Do you think the IL ‘teaching elder’ would consider THIS ‘distinction that doesn’t match’ important enough to make 2 different trumps of it? Well, he doesn’t. But he does make 1 instrument sounding 2 times, so he can have a last trump (albeit, invented) and not have to take the last trump in the scripture, in Revelation, because the time of its sound does not fit his paradigm:
1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with [en] the trump [salpigx] of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Since the Cunning Royal Jester has changed from years of teaching 3 toots to currently teaching just 2 toots, his Jokers are following suit.
When the 7th angel sounds the 7th (last) trumpet, God’s kingdom will come:
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
When the 7th angel sounds the 7th (last) trumpet, the mystery of God (also see Col 2:2, Eph 3:3-9, Col 4:3) will be over:
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice [phone] of the seventh angel, when he shall begin [mello] to sound [salpizo], the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
There is also the issue about both the dead and the alive.
Jesus taught His disciples that not everyone will be dead when He comes:
Luke 9:26-27 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
But when PAUL wrote that not all believers will be dead .... that some will still be alive, when the Lord comes .... the IL ‘teaching elder’ says THIS was previously UNKNOWN information:
1 Cor 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
My point is, that God REVEALED His secrets to the prophets (which includes Saul/Paul in Acts 13:1) .... and they harmonized His revelation to His righteous saints that fear Him:
Psa 25:14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
Prov 3:32 For the froward is abomination to the LORD: but his secret is with the righteous.
Dan 2:47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Matthew wrote that Jesus said He will judge in His kingdom when He comes:
Matt 16:27-28 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory,
and all the holy angels with him,
then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Yet when PAUL wrote of the judgment of the Lord of both the alive and the dead .... at His coming and His kingdom (even in the one sentence) .... the IL ‘teaching elder’ takes a quantum leap by dividing ‘Paul from Paul’ when he teaches that Christ’s appearing will be a ‘pre-tribulation rapture’ (the 1st great installment?!) that will occur more than 7 years prior to the Lord’s 2nd coming (for Israel) when He will establish His kingdom on earth:
2 Tim 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
John also described the Lord’s coming in judgment and vengence:
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
When PAUL recorded prophecy about the Lord’s coming in judgment to make war against His enemies and be glorified and admired in His elect .... both "in that day" .... AND 'with His angels' (like Matt 25:31) .... the IL ‘teaching elder’ splits apart this ‘distinction that doesn’t match’, too:
2 Thess 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us,
when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints,
and to be admired in all them that believe
(because our testimony among you was believed)
in that day.
The IL ‘teaching elder’ said ‘The 2nd coming was a man-made term’.
Hmmmm .... maybe it could be ‘the 2nd appearing’ instead?
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;
and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Are you one of them who looks for the Lord’s appearing? Looking for it does not necessitate that it is imminent, any day now .... but that you have a stedfast hope, knowing He will come:
Phil 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Peter also wrote about looking for the day of the Lord to come (2 Pet 3:12-14).
Many times I have heard the IL ‘teaching elder’ preach, "Things that are different are not the same!" He uses that whenever HE wants to, then whenever he doesn’t want to use it, he flips it and goes the other way, to say that all the records don’t have the same information about the same event, but they give different facts.
Later in his message, as the IL ‘teaching elder’ attempted to link several passages, with different information, about the same event. There he did an ‘about-face’ and said the scripture ‘sort-of sprinkles stuff through .... a little information here and there’. What double-talk!
I have documented 83 times where at least 2 of the 4 gospel accounts record the same events, without the exact same details, but God’s records are in complete harmony. The IL ‘teaching elder’ teaches that the coming, appearing, trumpet, gathering, judgment, kingdom, last days, grace, mystery, revelation, etc. of which PAUL wrote .... were all separate things from the same things that anyone ‘outside of Paul’ wrote.
With all this evidence in scripture that proves the IL 'teaching elder' is wrong, no wonder he threw his arms and hands up in the air during this past Sunday evening's message, and bewailed, "So what if I'm wrong?"
1 Cor 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
I would rather be prepared. How about you?
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
Friday, August 27, 2010
Monday, August 23, 2010
Wait a Minute .... or Wait 2,000 + Years?
John the Baptist preached the kingdom was near:
Matt 3:1-2 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Jesus Himself preached the kingdom was nigh:
Matt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Jesus commissioned His disciples as the 12 apostles (Matt 10:1-2) and sent them out with the message of the kingdom being close:
Matt 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
The phrase "at hand" from the Greek word [eggizo] means ‘to bring near, to join one thing to another, to draw or come near to, to approach’.
The Greek word [eggizo] is used 43 times. It was translated ‘draw nigh’ 12 times, ‘be at hand’ 9 times, ‘come nigh’ 8 times, ‘come near’ 5 times, ‘draw near’ 4 times, and miscellaneous 5 times.
Obviously, the ‘birth’ Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about was a ‘spiritual birth’ .... and the ‘kingdom’ one would ‘see’ (know, perceive, behold, look) was a ‘spiritual kingdom’:
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jesus taught that the kingdom could not be seen with physical eyes:
Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there!
for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
In fulfillment of prophecy (Zech 9:9), Jesus was celebrated as Israel’s King:
John 12:12-13 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
In the judgment hall, Pilate asked Jesus what He had done that the chief priests of His own nation had delivered Him to him. He was accused of being a political king .... but He wasn’t:
John 18:33-36 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:
if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,
that I should not be delivered to the Jews:
but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Jesus was also charged with being a threat to Caesar’s throne .... but He wasn’t:
John 19:12-15 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
Before He was crucified, Jesus already indicated that His kingdom was there:
Matt 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God
is come [phthano] unto you.
The Greek word [phthano] means ‘to come before, precede, anticipate’. Just to show you how that Greek word [phthano] is also used .... examine this next verse:
1 Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall [phthano] not prevent [phthano] them which are asleep.
God raised Jesus from the dead, and gave Him all authority. For now, His kingdom rule is not over a physical territory, but over men’s hearts:
Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Many verses contain evidence that the fulfillment of the Messianic Psalms 2 and 110 prophecies began with the resurrection, ascension, and heavenly seating of Jesus as King (Acts 2:29-36, 4:25-28, 8:12, 13:32-33; Heb 5:5; Rev 2:26-27).
Jesus said the kingdom belonged to those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake:
Matt 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Paul and Barnabus encouraged the churches as they entered the kingdom:
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Ask yourself, do you believe God's word? The Acts of the Apostles is part of the Holy Bible. Paul preached the kingdom of God about Jesus, from Moses and the prophets:
Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him (Paul) a day, there came many to him (Paul) into his lodging; to whom he (Paul) expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 28:30-31 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him (Paul),
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
There is nothing about God having 'different kingdoms' .... or that says Paul preached a 'different kingdom of God' than everyone else.
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
1 Cor 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
Col 1:12-13 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1 Thess 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2 Thess 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
If God had ‘postponed’ the kingdom, as ‘mid-Acts-ers’ teach ....
then, from reading these verses, He obviously did not inform Paul of its delay.
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
Matt 3:1-2 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Jesus Himself preached the kingdom was nigh:
Matt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Jesus commissioned His disciples as the 12 apostles (Matt 10:1-2) and sent them out with the message of the kingdom being close:
Matt 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
The phrase "at hand" from the Greek word [eggizo] means ‘to bring near, to join one thing to another, to draw or come near to, to approach’.
The Greek word [eggizo] is used 43 times. It was translated ‘draw nigh’ 12 times, ‘be at hand’ 9 times, ‘come nigh’ 8 times, ‘come near’ 5 times, ‘draw near’ 4 times, and miscellaneous 5 times.
Obviously, the ‘birth’ Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about was a ‘spiritual birth’ .... and the ‘kingdom’ one would ‘see’ (know, perceive, behold, look) was a ‘spiritual kingdom’:
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jesus taught that the kingdom could not be seen with physical eyes:
Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there!
for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
In fulfillment of prophecy (Zech 9:9), Jesus was celebrated as Israel’s King:
John 12:12-13 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
In the judgment hall, Pilate asked Jesus what He had done that the chief priests of His own nation had delivered Him to him. He was accused of being a political king .... but He wasn’t:
John 18:33-36 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:
if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,
that I should not be delivered to the Jews:
but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Jesus was also charged with being a threat to Caesar’s throne .... but He wasn’t:
John 19:12-15 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
Before He was crucified, Jesus already indicated that His kingdom was there:
Matt 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God
is come [phthano] unto you.
The Greek word [phthano] means ‘to come before, precede, anticipate’. Just to show you how that Greek word [phthano] is also used .... examine this next verse:
1 Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall [phthano] not prevent [phthano] them which are asleep.
God raised Jesus from the dead, and gave Him all authority. For now, His kingdom rule is not over a physical territory, but over men’s hearts:
Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Many verses contain evidence that the fulfillment of the Messianic Psalms 2 and 110 prophecies began with the resurrection, ascension, and heavenly seating of Jesus as King (Acts 2:29-36, 4:25-28, 8:12, 13:32-33; Heb 5:5; Rev 2:26-27).
Jesus said the kingdom belonged to those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake:
Matt 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Paul and Barnabus encouraged the churches as they entered the kingdom:
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Ask yourself, do you believe God's word? The Acts of the Apostles is part of the Holy Bible. Paul preached the kingdom of God about Jesus, from Moses and the prophets:
Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him (Paul) a day, there came many to him (Paul) into his lodging; to whom he (Paul) expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 28:30-31 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him (Paul),
31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
There is nothing about God having 'different kingdoms' .... or that says Paul preached a 'different kingdom of God' than everyone else.
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
1 Cor 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
Col 1:12-13 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1 Thess 2:12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2 Thess 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
If God had ‘postponed’ the kingdom, as ‘mid-Acts-ers’ teach ....
then, from reading these verses, He obviously did not inform Paul of its delay.
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
Friday, August 13, 2010
A Tangled Web
I wanted to share a reply from a ‘mid-Acts’ preacher to this question I sent to several people:
"Where in scripture do we find the last trump spoken of in 1 Cor 15:52, so we can get a time for its sound?"
1 Cor 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
In response to the question, I had a ‘mid-Acts’ preacher write to me about 1 Cor 15:23, and say that, "The coming of the Lord here at the end of the 70th week of Daniel is not well received by the nations. No problem, as He will deal with them in wrath." I could say that I agree with that. I believe that the Lord will come at the end of the 70th week of Daniel.
The ‘mid-Acts’ preacher also said that, "The last trump of 1 Cor 15:52 is spoken of in 1 Thess 4:16-17. The time of its sound is 1 Cor 15:23 "they that are Christ’s at his coming" This is where 1 Thess 4:16-17 occurs." Hey, I agree with that, too .... but as we go on, you will see that the ‘mid-Acts’ preacher does not agree with himself. He double-talks!
Now let’s read the passage:
1 Cor 15:23-28 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;
when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
He also wrote, "It’s my position that the series of trumps in the book of Revelation do not occur in the dispensation of grace. They are part of the Prophetic Program John records in the book of Revelation." I do not agree with that. Here is where he begins to tie himself in a knot.
He wrote, "1 Cor 15:52 does not refer to the 1st resurrection of the dead (at the beginning of the 1000 years) nor the 2nd resurrection of the dead (after the 1000 years are finished). 1 Cor 15:52 pertains to the resurrection in 1 Thess 4:16-17. This resurrection ends the dispensation of grace." Right there he just ‘invented another resurrection’ .... ‘a different resurrection’ .... to end the dispensation of grace .... that he does not count .... that he says comes BEFORE the 1st resurrection.
He wrote, "The resurrection of when they reign with Christ in the 1000 years occurs at the end of 1 Cor 15:24. This is the resurrection of Rev 20:5 referred to as the 1st resurrection. It is the first one in the time frame covered (the 70th week of Daniel) - it occurs at the end of the 70th week."
He wrote, "Paul covers the order of the resurrection for us, the body of Christ, in 1 Cor 15:23, 1 Thess 4:16-17, and 1 Cor 15:52. This resurrection ends the dispensation of grace and then God will resume the prophetic program."
He wrote of 1 Cor 15:23, "they that are Christ’s at his coming" (See Thess 4:16-17 and 1 Cor 15:52, which ends the dispensation of grace and triggers God’s resumption of His Prophetic Program.)
1 Cor 15:23-24 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
The ‘mid-Acts’ preacher thinks ‘this coming’ is a ‘non-counted’ resurrection at the ‘rapture’ that ends the dispensation of grace. Then AFTER ‘this secret coming’ .... he inserts ‘7 plus’ years .... for what-’mid-Acts-ers’-call a ‘prophesied GAP’ of ? number of years, PLUS the 70th week of Daniel’s 7 years. THEN .... AFTER THAT, he says it will be the end .... and AFTER 'THE END' .... there will be a totally DIFFERENT resurrection (even though the VERSE does not mention one) at the END of verse 24:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (Here he puts the ‘first’ resurrection of Rev 20:5)
Of 1 Cor 15:24, he wrote, "Note this is the time frame for Rev 19:19 through Rev 20:5 and the first resurrection. The book of Revelation pertains to the 70th week of Daniel and occurs after the end of the dispensation of grace."
I quoted the ‘mid-Acts’ preacher’s exact words, because I printed his e-mail. Now, in the words of Sir Walter Scott, I quote,
"Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practice to deceive."
2 Tim 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
Whether ‘mid-Acts’ preachers are deceiving people knowingly (realizing how irrational and unsupported their ridiculous claims are) or unknowingly (they themselves are deceived) .... either way .... they are teaching deception!
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
"Where in scripture do we find the last trump spoken of in 1 Cor 15:52, so we can get a time for its sound?"
1 Cor 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
In response to the question, I had a ‘mid-Acts’ preacher write to me about 1 Cor 15:23, and say that, "The coming of the Lord here at the end of the 70th week of Daniel is not well received by the nations. No problem, as He will deal with them in wrath." I could say that I agree with that. I believe that the Lord will come at the end of the 70th week of Daniel.
The ‘mid-Acts’ preacher also said that, "The last trump of 1 Cor 15:52 is spoken of in 1 Thess 4:16-17. The time of its sound is 1 Cor 15:23 "they that are Christ’s at his coming" This is where 1 Thess 4:16-17 occurs." Hey, I agree with that, too .... but as we go on, you will see that the ‘mid-Acts’ preacher does not agree with himself. He double-talks!
Now let’s read the passage:
1 Cor 15:23-28 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;
when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
He also wrote, "It’s my position that the series of trumps in the book of Revelation do not occur in the dispensation of grace. They are part of the Prophetic Program John records in the book of Revelation." I do not agree with that. Here is where he begins to tie himself in a knot.
He wrote, "1 Cor 15:52 does not refer to the 1st resurrection of the dead (at the beginning of the 1000 years) nor the 2nd resurrection of the dead (after the 1000 years are finished). 1 Cor 15:52 pertains to the resurrection in 1 Thess 4:16-17. This resurrection ends the dispensation of grace." Right there he just ‘invented another resurrection’ .... ‘a different resurrection’ .... to end the dispensation of grace .... that he does not count .... that he says comes BEFORE the 1st resurrection.
He wrote, "The resurrection of when they reign with Christ in the 1000 years occurs at the end of 1 Cor 15:24. This is the resurrection of Rev 20:5 referred to as the 1st resurrection. It is the first one in the time frame covered (the 70th week of Daniel) - it occurs at the end of the 70th week."
He wrote, "Paul covers the order of the resurrection for us, the body of Christ, in 1 Cor 15:23, 1 Thess 4:16-17, and 1 Cor 15:52. This resurrection ends the dispensation of grace and then God will resume the prophetic program."
He wrote of 1 Cor 15:23, "they that are Christ’s at his coming" (See Thess 4:16-17 and 1 Cor 15:52, which ends the dispensation of grace and triggers God’s resumption of His Prophetic Program.)
1 Cor 15:23-24 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
The ‘mid-Acts’ preacher thinks ‘this coming’ is a ‘non-counted’ resurrection at the ‘rapture’ that ends the dispensation of grace. Then AFTER ‘this secret coming’ .... he inserts ‘7 plus’ years .... for what-’mid-Acts-ers’-call a ‘prophesied GAP’ of ? number of years, PLUS the 70th week of Daniel’s 7 years. THEN .... AFTER THAT, he says it will be the end .... and AFTER 'THE END' .... there will be a totally DIFFERENT resurrection (even though the VERSE does not mention one) at the END of verse 24:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (Here he puts the ‘first’ resurrection of Rev 20:5)
Of 1 Cor 15:24, he wrote, "Note this is the time frame for Rev 19:19 through Rev 20:5 and the first resurrection. The book of Revelation pertains to the 70th week of Daniel and occurs after the end of the dispensation of grace."
I quoted the ‘mid-Acts’ preacher’s exact words, because I printed his e-mail. Now, in the words of Sir Walter Scott, I quote,
"Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practice to deceive."
2 Tim 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
Whether ‘mid-Acts’ preachers are deceiving people knowingly (realizing how irrational and unsupported their ridiculous claims are) or unknowingly (they themselves are deceived) .... either way .... they are teaching deception!
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
Friday, August 6, 2010
Look It Up and Looking Up
According to a prominent dictionary’s definition,
the transitive verb ‘scoop’ primarily means ‘to take up or out’,
and in the same dictionary, the word ‘rapture’ as a noun, in its third meaning, rare except in theological use, means ‘a carrying away in body or spirit’.
The use of ‘scoop’ in a sentence stated, "Quickly, the man scooped a handful of water from the river."
Thus one could correctly express that Elijah was scooped up into heaven in a chariot of fire:
2 Kings 2:9-11 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
The dictionary describes a ‘scoop’ also being a ladle. It can bail or pull out.
The dictionary says a ‘scoop’ can dig or excavate.
Maybe, like graves opening?
Ezek 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Maybe before one puts their own self in a quagmire (a difficult or precarious situation; a predicament) by mocking word usage and expression of others .... it would be a good idea to research! Whoever said a person didn’t study .... well, if the chide worked, why knock it?
This week I heard a ‘mid-Acts’ preacher bring up the fact that he had an ‘office’, but he avoided using the word ‘bishop’ (which I know he did use in the past). However, I couldn’t help but wonder if the recent conference affected his desire to do ‘a good work’ (as a ‘bishop’) so he could fit in with all the ‘brothers’ (as they were all introduced to the pulpit) and be accepted with his buddies, who CLAIM to be KJV while using the word ‘pastor’ of The Living Bible for their title.
Many statements that ‘mid-Acts-ers’ make are not scripturally accurate.
For example, ‘mid-Acts-ers’ say: Paul was the first member of the body of Christ .... because he said, ‘In me first’.
But the VERSE says nothing about the body of Christ or being the first member of any church:
1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
‘Mid-Acts-ers’ say: Saul could have/would have been the Anti-Christ .... and was probably just as bad as Anti-Christ.
But the VERSE makes no mention of any connection between Anti-Christ and Saul:
1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
‘Mid-Acts-ers’ say: Timothy had faith in the message given to him by Paul .... but Lois and Eunice had faith in Israel’s program.
But the VERSE says the faith that Timothy’s mom and granny first had, was also in him:
2 Tim 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.
‘Mid-Acts-ers’ act like Jesus shouldn’t stand up from His throne until He makes His enemies His footstool .... to be in accordance with ‘Israel’s prophecy program’ they have assigned .... even though Stephen looked up and saw Jesus standing when he was welcomed into His presence. Can the LORD not STAND when He wants to stand .... or does He have to STAY SEATED on His throne for 2,000 plus years, until He STANDS to pour out His wrath?
Acts 7:55-56 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Speaking of looking up .... when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, Jesus instructed the saints to look up to see Him coming in a cloud, bringing their redemption:
Luke 21:24-28 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Also speaking of looking up .... Paul showed believers looking up to heaven to see the coming of the Lord .... which, in Eph 4:30, he called "the day of redemption" .... and in Rom 8:23, he said we are "waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body":
Phil 3:20-21 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Paul presented our looking up again at the appearing of the Son of Man in glory .... just as Jesus told His disciples:
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Peter also described looking for God’s day:
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Jude wrote about looking for eternal life that Christ will bring:
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
My advice is to look it up to make sure you know what words you’re talking about and to prevent ‘mid-Acts-ers’ from wresting verses on you, and keep looking up to the Saviour in heaven Who will bring redemption!
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
.
the transitive verb ‘scoop’ primarily means ‘to take up or out’,
and in the same dictionary, the word ‘rapture’ as a noun, in its third meaning, rare except in theological use, means ‘a carrying away in body or spirit’.
The use of ‘scoop’ in a sentence stated, "Quickly, the man scooped a handful of water from the river."
Thus one could correctly express that Elijah was scooped up into heaven in a chariot of fire:
2 Kings 2:9-11 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
The dictionary describes a ‘scoop’ also being a ladle. It can bail or pull out.
The dictionary says a ‘scoop’ can dig or excavate.
Maybe, like graves opening?
Ezek 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Maybe before one puts their own self in a quagmire (a difficult or precarious situation; a predicament) by mocking word usage and expression of others .... it would be a good idea to research! Whoever said a person didn’t study .... well, if the chide worked, why knock it?
This week I heard a ‘mid-Acts’ preacher bring up the fact that he had an ‘office’, but he avoided using the word ‘bishop’ (which I know he did use in the past). However, I couldn’t help but wonder if the recent conference affected his desire to do ‘a good work’ (as a ‘bishop’) so he could fit in with all the ‘brothers’ (as they were all introduced to the pulpit) and be accepted with his buddies, who CLAIM to be KJV while using the word ‘pastor’ of The Living Bible for their title.
Many statements that ‘mid-Acts-ers’ make are not scripturally accurate.
For example, ‘mid-Acts-ers’ say: Paul was the first member of the body of Christ .... because he said, ‘In me first’.
But the VERSE says nothing about the body of Christ or being the first member of any church:
1 Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
‘Mid-Acts-ers’ say: Saul could have/would have been the Anti-Christ .... and was probably just as bad as Anti-Christ.
But the VERSE makes no mention of any connection between Anti-Christ and Saul:
1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
‘Mid-Acts-ers’ say: Timothy had faith in the message given to him by Paul .... but Lois and Eunice had faith in Israel’s program.
But the VERSE says the faith that Timothy’s mom and granny first had, was also in him:
2 Tim 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.
‘Mid-Acts-ers’ act like Jesus shouldn’t stand up from His throne until He makes His enemies His footstool .... to be in accordance with ‘Israel’s prophecy program’ they have assigned .... even though Stephen looked up and saw Jesus standing when he was welcomed into His presence. Can the LORD not STAND when He wants to stand .... or does He have to STAY SEATED on His throne for 2,000 plus years, until He STANDS to pour out His wrath?
Acts 7:55-56 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Speaking of looking up .... when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, Jesus instructed the saints to look up to see Him coming in a cloud, bringing their redemption:
Luke 21:24-28 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Also speaking of looking up .... Paul showed believers looking up to heaven to see the coming of the Lord .... which, in Eph 4:30, he called "the day of redemption" .... and in Rom 8:23, he said we are "waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body":
Phil 3:20-21 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Paul presented our looking up again at the appearing of the Son of Man in glory .... just as Jesus told His disciples:
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Peter also described looking for God’s day:
2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Jude wrote about looking for eternal life that Christ will bring:
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
My advice is to look it up to make sure you know what words you’re talking about and to prevent ‘mid-Acts-ers’ from wresting verses on you, and keep looking up to the Saviour in heaven Who will bring redemption!
This is David Dowell, saying, "Think about it!"
.
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